You are different from the usual imam, teacher, hafiz image. What kind of family were you born in? Let’s get to know you a little.
I was born in Sultanahmet, at a point we can call the centre of Istanbul, even the centre of the world. There is a “million stone” in the corner at the intersection of Ayasofya and Divan Yolu street. Right next to the Basilica palace, we all pass by there quickly, we are not aware of it. They say that the centre of the world is at that point and they used to make a route to the whole world from there. I was born in the house next to the fourth shop just above it. We had a shop in Çemberlitaş. Being born in the centre of the world does not mean coming face to face with everything. My father was a merchant, an imam. In the past, teachers used to do several jobs. He was both an imam in the mosque and he was not a person who tried to make a living by marketing and presenting religious information or travelling from house to house. On the contrary, he was a person who earned from trade and continued his life by spending his earnings on students. Teachers used to either work in the dessert business or as watchmakers. Who looks at the clock all the time where a person stands? The imam and the muezzin of the mosque, because they are men of time. They cannot miss the adhan for a second. You grow up as the child of a father who says, “Come to prayer, come to salvation. But we weren’t a quiet child. We didn’t stand still.
Was it your choice to become an imam or did your family have an influence? Your brothers are imams like you. Did they also study like you?
We are 4 brothers. I am the second from the order above. My older brother studied theology and sociology. My youngest brother graduated from Bilgi University, public relations. He is currently doing his master’s degree. He is both a director and has his own photography works. We don’t interfere with each other much, everyone is free at home. The youngest one is doing his doctorate in economics. He became a financial advisor. My father never interfered with any of us during our education life. The only thing he said was, “I trust you. You’ll do it. He did not interfere with which one of us would study at which university. We always finished school from outside. We finished secondary and high school from outside. We finished in a few years.
Why is that?
We read classical Islamic works. After we finished our hafizlik studies at the Qur’an centre affiliated to the Religious Affairs, we finished middle school and high school. A person who reads the Holy Qur’an , opens his intelligence. Therefore, I am currently studying at my fourth university, not just a few universities. I studied at the Faculty of Theology, master’s degree, master’s degree in business administration, and then there is a school called Haseki training centre, you have to finish this school in order to become a mufti, it takes 3 years and Arabic education. After finishing these, you become a mufti. If you do not finish, you cannot become a mufti. I am currently studying law. My brothers and sisters all live their own lives, but my father had one goal, my son, you will serve this country and people. My father used to tell us only one thing: “Memorise the Holy Qur’an and don’t forget your Hafiz status for the rest of your life. I don’t want anything else from you. You are free to study at university or not.
I guess Sultanahmet was a different university for you?
Sultanahmet is a completely different school. When you walk around there one day, you may feel like a sultan or a sultan’s mother. Because sultans have lived there. You never see cats meowing in Sultanahmet. Even they are noble. Sultanahmet’s cats are different, its adhan is different, its visitors are different.
How many years have you lived there?
I was always there until the last 3 years ago.
What was the reason for your interest in reading so much?
It is always a necessity. When you enter the mosque, people from all over the world come and ask you questions. A man can also ask questions in his own language.
And what do they ask?
They ask about religion, they ask about our customs. And we have to answer them. Therefore, in order to answer them, you need to go to the best place for this profession.
Do you have a role model?
I knew that my father was a very good orator. The biggest prosecutors and judges would listen to his speech for an hour in front of him. I was looking at it like this, so you have to be an imam to be in front of everyone. My father was always sending me to the Sultanahmet Mosque. I wanted to see how the crowded congregation and the performance of the teachers there were. I looked and saw that the teachers were speaking very well and without marginalising anyone. Then I asked the secret when I heard their beautiful expressions. They said that the teachers were graduates of both theology and literature. They studied at two universities.
Being an imam is the highest rank in the world. Let me put it this way, if a president or prime minister comes to a mosque, who does he stand behind? He stands behind the imam. When the imam says Amin, he stands one step behind. It is the office of the Prophet. Therefore, there is no higher authority than him.
No matter which religion or which race of people listen to the Holy Qur’an, they are affected. Don’t tell me that I am not impressed, I have seen examples of this in the world.
Do you have a message for people who judge you because you are modern, that is, because you are different from the usual imam?
May Allah give them imam children who are more modern than me.
What does a world first place mean for a hafiz?
They give you a merit. If you can carry it, that merit is yours. Both from the court of right and the court of the people…
What does being a hafiz bring to a person?
Whoever enters the circle of Islam and says I am a Muslim is the ummah of the Prophet. The most honourable people of my ummah are those who carry the Holy Qur’an. The only people the sultan stands up for are hafiz.
A terrible incident happened to you. You came back from the dead. Do you believe in miracles?
Who doesn’t believe in miracles? It was Ramadan when I recited the muqabele at Eyüp Sultan Mosque in 2002, and I was even late that night. I drank tea five minutes before the adhan. When I was shot the next day, I went 24 hours-36 hours without eating anything. Then I couldn’t eat anything for 10 days again. The day before, I had given my car, which had been given to me as a gift in the Qur’an recitation competition, to a friend. I hadn’t been in that car for a year. Because when I got in the car, I started to feel heaviness on me. I couldn’t sleep at night. I took the car and parked it in a garage at the end of Istanbul and I didn’t get in it. After a year, I thought I should get in it, so that it would be an incentive for hafiz, children, maybe they would want to become hafiz. I rode one day and the next day I gave it to my friend. He rode it for a day and then gave it back to me. Then he said to me: “Selman, be careful that nothing happens to you. When he phoned me and told me, I was in front of a fruit shop in Fatih, buying fruit. I hung up. I was shot there tomorrow. No matter what he says. Fear is useless… No matter how many precautions you take, you can somehow encounter such a thing. However, it is really a divine miracle that I came back to life when I should have died. Because I made a promise to Allah when I was shot. I have never fought in my life. I don’t like those who fight either. But a person has pride. When he realises that someone else has been wronged, it may feel heavier than if it was done to him. I felt the same way. Recently, in the Ramadan month of 2002, it was the most eventful Ramadan of the last 10 years.
You think there’s a robber, don’t you?
Of course. I was listening to the Qur’an in the car. I had a hafiz friend with me and we were listening to the radio, changing the differences between Turkish hafiz and Egyptian hafiz. Because we were both travelling back and forth to world competitions. Someone started shouting. “He’s running away, catch him! I said, “Who is this rascal or honourless person?” But it was loud. I said, “He’s stealing on Ramadan. I turned the ignition. I reversed out. Who? Who’s what? Where’s he going? I don’t know anything. As I was travelling down the road, someone pointed and said, “Take me with you. I took him too. He got in the right seat. Another person said, “Take me on the left,” but I didn’t take him. I went two streets down. Someone pointed to where the thief went in and said, “He went in here! He went in here! He pointed to the street and I turned to the right, I looked and saw a man waddling in the middle of the street, holding a bag similar to the one that the heads of associations used to collect money. But if you saw it in the hand of a thirty-year-old man, you wouldn’t call it his. He doesn’t carry it. He probably stole it from an uncle walking in the bazaar and ran away. I looked out of the corner of my eye as I passed by the man. When I saw him running away, I hit the brakes and put the car in the park. I jumped down and punched the guy. He never saw me anyway. He flew backwards, and then I was on top of him. I can’t hit him. But he can’t breathe. He’ll die. The guy had just shot someone else with a single bullet in the brain. He pulled out the gun. I saw the barrel and he fired it. I couldn’t hold the gun. He’s carrying two guns and two bombs. He fired the bullet. It went in the front and came out the back. I stayed on my knee. He got up. He pointed the gun at my head. I realised it wasn’t a robbery. My hand involuntarily went up in the air. I said: “For Allah’s sake, don’t shoot!”. At first I said: “Go do whatever you want! I don’t know anything.” I realised that he had no fear of anything, maybe he had some fear of Allah, I said: “Don’t shoot for the sake of Allah!” When I said that, he fired the gun once more. The bullet entered through my finger and then changed direction when it was going to my brain. The bullet started to accelerate after 4 metres. The bullet broke my teeth and tore my tongue. I’m lying on the floor, blood pouring out. I thought life was over.
How old were you then?
I’m 25. ” My Allah, I have nothing to do with this incident. My prayers are done, I have done my ablution, I have read the Qur’an, I am fasting, I did not follow this man to be a hero. You know my Allah. If you take my life, grant me paradise. If you give me life, grant me to serve your Qur’an.” At that moment, one does not know what to do out of fear. After I said these words, a voice said, “Calm down!” The blood was gushing out of my mouth. The blood stopped gushing. They put me in a taxi. I see the roads, the boy who lifted me off the ground, the boy who put me in the taxi, I see everything. I bring the word of shahada in case I die at any moment. I can’t say it. Because my tongue is broken, I don’t realise it. On the third time, I said, “Allah, you know.” I said, “You accept it.” My whole life really passed before my eyes. When we came to the hospital, I realised that I wasn’t going to die. The expert in this business at the hospital didn’t go to iftar. Years ago, when I was 12 or 13 years old, we had a dentist, a car was honking non-stop. I was looking out of the window from there. I still have that car in front of my eyes. It was a white car. When I was little, I said, ” why is this car honking so much?
Was it carrying a patient?
When I was passing by there, the traffic was stuck and we were honking in the taxi. At that moment Allah said, “Do you remember what happened here?
The next day I was written in the newspapers as a thief.
What was the conversation between you and the doctor who cured you after your recovery?
Years later, the daughter of the doctor’s relative’s daughter broke her leg. I went to their house. He said, “Can you read my daughter and my son?” Later, when we were chatting, he said, “We are going to Umrah.” He is a relative of the doctor who operated on me. He said he saw him and told him. He said, “Who are you going with?” He said, “Selman Okumuş.” The doctor said, “Come on! We had already made a contract with him years ago.
There have been some investigations against you. What do you think were the reasons for these investigations?
Our ancestors had a saying; “Those who tell the truth are chased away from nine villages. When you start doing extraordinary things, it is natural that these things come. We don’t expect any medals, but I get a great pleasure every time I am cleared of these investigations.
